CHAtroom#28: Contested Aid with Ralf Südhoff

00:00:01: A warm welcome to the chat room, the podcast on humanitarian action.

00:00:05: My name is Anne Tritschler and I am communications lead at the Center for Humanitarian Action.

00:00:14: We are recording in November, two thousand twenty six.

00:00:18: And that means the German Bundestag is preparing for another round of budget

00:00:23: debates

00:00:23: while a child team is in the midst of preparations for this year's conference which we titled Fixing The Money Changing Aid For Real.

00:00:33: Therefore I want to talk with

00:00:35: Ralph about financing and humanitarian action Namely donor accountability.

00:00:54: Thanks for joining us today, Ralph.

00:00:56: Many thanks for having me.

00:00:58: Ralph, could we maybe start with an update on a planned budget... ...for humanitarian aid and development in Germany?

00:01:04: Where do we stand right now...?

00:01:06: And what do you expect?

00:01:08: Is there any hope, would you say?

00:01:10: Well if you'd like to start with that….

00:01:12: …we'll start the bad news but I'm happy to share better good news also later on!

00:01:19: I mean, indeed since Germany's new government has cut its budget in more than half.

00:01:24: There have been a lot of talk about coming back and increasing it again also by the foreign minister who is close friend of Chancellor Merz.

00:01:32: so initially humanitarians hoped for quite some leverage on this regard from the New Government And the minister, what he also called for higher funds last month ahead of now indeed final budget talks from November and so did some other Christian Democrats in Germany.

00:01:49: However obviously as far we know this is only lip service.

00:01:54: I mean to my knowledge The German Foreign Office has actually not even requested an increase Now with a final budget round So the finance Minister will surely not agree on something that foreign office hasn't asked.

00:02:07: At the same time, parliamentarians from all democratic parties keep supporting the idea of higher humanitarian funding.

00:02:14: So one might think this old political consensus that Germany needs to pledge high is still alive.

00:02:20: but for my view we witness quite a bluff in this regard.

00:02:24: I mean as all Parliament actors know there was a political deadlock nobody really wants to talk about by the cross-democrats are in charge of the foreign office and this of German, humanitarian aid.

00:02:36: They have insisted to decrease overall as they somehow hope to fight by such an approach the right extremists from the AFD party.

00:02:50: However, this means that any readjustment of humanitarian aid would be at the expense of development funds which are run by the Development Ministry managed by social democrats.

00:02:59: so overall why both parties keep calling for higher eight budgets.

00:03:05: In fact, the Social Democrats for example lobby rather against higher humanitarian funding as it would be at the expense of their own ministry and in the end this means from my view like... It's a bit like a secret ceasefire.

00:03:18: both sides keep supporting calls for higher development and humanitarian funding but in fact both sides agreed not to re-increase either or as the German government is fighting anyhow about so many other issues already these days

00:03:32: okay?

00:03:33: Well, seeing globally these budget cuts in Germany.

00:03:36: They're not an isolated case.

00:03:38: many donors actually have scaled back even slashed their budgets with very alarming shocking consequences.

00:03:48: Could you give us some examples of other donors?

00:03:51: In the EU or globally what they are up to Or maybe other examples as well?

00:03:58: Sure, I mean the budget cuts indeed are not isolated in Germany and bad news is that the era of Germany as a top donor might be over.

00:04:07: And we see very similar developments in other European countries maybe with exceptions like Norway or maybe UK in future.

00:04:15: The good news is some much debated donors have lately pledged way more than Germany.

00:04:20: for example the US keeps providing four or even five times more humanitarian funding than Germany.

00:04:30: So these funds have now strong political ties, but also much debated donors like the Emirates, like Saudi Arabia has overtaken Germany both in total pledges and the more if you put gross national income economic welfare into relation to what has been pledged.

00:04:48: In this regard is obvious that Germany's by no means anymore top donor which of course a shame.

00:04:53: It's also a shame because Germany has been a role model for top donor before, from many countries.

00:04:58: And of course these cuts are now the new German role model as well as the overall approach to see a budget trade-off... ...to feed into this narrative that there is a trade off between new security and geopolitical investments versus investments in human security by aid budges.

00:05:15: Germany could lead I believe an example considering it complementary comprehensive foreign policy approach, covering both its national interest as well.

00:05:27: As it's values.

00:05:28: in particular we talk about very tiny budgets needed.

00:05:31: so Germany could change course and of course

00:05:46: developed a different approach.

00:05:48: Well, I mean as named Norway for example is very stable in some parts even increasing its engagement donor and really stabilizing it.

00:05:59: Switzerland has had some minor cuts but still pretty stable.

00:06:05: There is hope that under the new prime minister, UK might have a stronger priority not only on social welfare in the

00:06:13: U.K.,

00:06:13: but also on eight budgets and global arena so including European Commission.

00:06:19: of course we need to keep in mind that EU will come up with a new budget And draft has been promising But off course.

00:06:27: we know that the budget overall would be heavily cut as again by Germany's lobbying for.

00:06:34: You already mentioned it, like funds having political ties.

00:06:37: So these budget cuts they not only lead to further prioritization and humanitarian action but also a more interest-driven approach.

00:06:48: some might say this is in contradiction two humanitarian principles.

00:06:53: Germany's Director General for Humanitarian Action Katharina Ahrens admitted beginning of October at the Char event that quote Even very principled humanitarian donors consider carefully which regions are geographically close, where do we have a particular foreign policy interest?

00:07:16: And they allocate their funds accordingly.

00:07:20: I find this not only legitimate but also

00:07:28: inevitable.".

00:07:30: I would actually strongly disagree with this take, while i understand the basic idea.

00:07:35: The basic idea means to aim at sort of a geographic division of labor which put already the former government and Green Foreign Minister Baerbock on the table.

00:07:46: Why shouldn't donors prioritize areas in countries close to their neighborhood as they have to prioritize engagements anyhow?

00:07:55: And if so, all donors could prioritize regions and crises close by as they know these well.

00:08:03: Plus it's a win-win regarding other security related interests.

00:08:07: The prime example for Germany is to heavily fund humanitarian aid in Ukraine.

00:08:12: While hoping when Russia's war started and a new humanitarian strategy has been outlined that this could result in the division of labor with the US, taking care primarily of Latin America and the Caribbean.

00:08:24: asian donors for Asian crisis in Europe engaging overall its neighborhood.

00:08:30: What might sound smart in theory has major challenges and practice.

00:08:33: On the US side, this idea has been involved when Biden was still in The White House and USAID alive... ...and a cooperative partner of Germany.

00:08:42: Now USAID is gone And while some funding is back It's by no means spent based on humanitarian needs And regional coordination with other donors Is not existing.

00:08:52: So U.S.

00:08:52: Humanitarian aid is at least as erratic As overall Trump policies.

00:08:57: At the same time, you lack in a major region like Asia reliable and capable partners.

00:09:01: China and Russia will by no means become partners on such a humanitarian global approach for the foreseeable future.

00:09:09: Germany has decided to widely withdraw at the same from both continents from Asia and Latin America.

00:09:15: This is explicitly the goal of its new development as well as it's unitarian strategy.

00:09:21: So what are people left with?

00:09:22: is in future, who have the bad luck to be stuck at the world's largest refugee camp which is in Asia or Afghanistan.

00:09:29: Or what about millions of refugees from Venezuela?

00:09:32: Are these all just living on a wrong country and having bad luck that no donor is interested anymore in their priorities?

00:09:41: So in short, humanitarian principles don't allow to simply agree in Europe that these people just live on the wrong continent or we keep funding way over proportionally.

00:09:51: People in need and Ukraine for example...

00:09:53: In The New Workplan you have been working on a possible solution for this so-called fair share.

00:10:01: How would he define it?

00:10:03: And if this is implemented what does Germany

00:10:08: mean

00:10:08: for other donors, for humanitarian

00:10:11: aid.

00:10:12: The idea is to build on an approach we actually didn't invent but it's already used in some other areas But interestingly It has never been seriously debated For the humanitarians' fear and funding To be allocated.

00:10:26: The idea was to look for an approach To break through this narrative And blame game of everybody just hinting On other donor's responsibility And a donor like Germany until today claiming it is still a top donor as its providing, for example more aid than most other countries including Liechtenstein and Luxembourg.

00:10:46: But that's of course in difficult comparison.

00:10:48: so the basic idea isn't new but has been applied before not to unitarian issues... ...but for example to defence, education or climate action.

00:10:57: actually As well It asks what are needs?

00:11:00: And would be fair share A given country should cover based on its economic welfare, it's gross national income.

00:11:08: We are very used to such criteria as we discuss all the time if Germany should provide three or even five percent of cross-national income to financial burdens.

00:11:19: NATO states need share and in other areas like research education have these goals for how many percentages should be invested etc... But on the Unitarian sides, needs are booming for years.

00:11:31: They've multiplied over a course of only the past twenty years where we keep discussing donor engagement totally disconnected to this.

00:11:39: So what we suggest is by our fair share model simply apply this fair share approach also to humanitarian need meaning break down what's globally needed which resulted due to the last reliable global humanitarian overview in a total of about forty five billion dollars worldwide.

00:11:59: This might sound a lot, but if you share this amount between all donor governments based on economic welfare as we do in defense for example Germany would need cover only seven percent of these needs globally given its economic welfare share, and this means in total we talked just about three billion euro per year Germany would need to provide.

00:12:21: And this is less than Germany has already provided a few years ago plus it could.

00:12:30: that it is doing its job, but nobody should expect to pay on top.

00:12:35: in addition the bill for US withdrawing from China and some other donors which don't live up to expectations.

00:12:43: So they could also provide a narrative anti-criteria what are their fair share or limits?

00:12:48: A civil society shouldn't ask an appeal for on top plus it can change.

00:12:52: the narrative of.

00:12:53: this isn't about charity This commitment and rights based approach And we follow a transparent way to define what is the decent engagement and what as well below, but we should provide.

00:13:06: We now talked about financing models already because no aspect of aid also mirrors the challenges power imbalances and urgent reform needs in this sector more clearly than these money issues.

00:13:22: And because of that, the CHAR conference this year will also focus on fixing.

00:13:40: Yes, of course.

00:13:41: Happy to do that and as far to the extent we know but I mean this starting point for us has been in all our internal discussions including with great ideas.

00:13:51: you've provided.

00:13:52: it was that we don't need another discussion on problems or challenges.

00:13:58: We wanted to discuss solutions new ideas To give also some hope to colleagues involved And they affected people came down to that.

00:14:09: almost every area you want to discuss and nail-down is a question of funding, but not only how much it's provided which we all the time love to discuss.

00:14:18: But also for whom?

00:14:20: And what?

00:14:21: How has this been provided?

00:14:22: This will be the key question in the humanitarian future from my view.

00:14:26: I think our views on the conference approach And we hope to get great ideas by great guests.

00:14:32: I mean, for a start our chart-twenty six cooperation partner.

00:14:36: For the first time We host conference with Veranda advisory center from Nairobi.

00:14:40: We are extremely delighted that director Chilander Coluba will join us and open With me at The Conference also as veranda has A great profile with respect To funding issues and how to empower local humanitarian Actors in particular.

00:14:54: They've published already years ago Well noted study passing the buck on this very topic.

00:15:00: In addition to this really thrilling cooperation, Juliette Parker will join us in the opening.

00:15:06: She's the director of ALNAP which has just published probably two Bibles of Humanitarian Research and Records The Global Humanitarian Assistance Report And The Source report on key humanitarian trends which has really great wealth of information and inspiring stuff we should look into.

00:15:25: But, if you also look forward to representatives from other global south NGOs as well as INGOs We expect the German Commissioner for Humanitarian Aid & Human Rights Las Castellucci.

00:15:35: We hope to welcome even the State Minister for Foreign Affairs from Bangladesh, Sharma Ubaid Islam.

00:15:40: And we want also try something new inside the regular panels and some closed-door fishbowl discussions on quite sensitive issues that will be hosted on day two.

00:15:50: Also give space to share great ideas about fixing money in a fixed pitch format where selected guests will pitch for five minutes an idea!

00:16:02: And then the audience will vote which one they like best.

00:16:05: So we are really looking forward to have heavy debates, but also some fun!

00:16:10: I hope many of you join us on-site and online.

00:16:13: My last question is a question.

00:16:15: i ask all my guests in the chatroom... ...and im really curious what your answer would be Ralph If You could use some kind of magic To stick a posted note On every humanitarian worker's desk or workstation.

00:16:30: What reminder or appeal would you write on it?

00:16:34: Of course, one could share a lot of sayings which have great value about getting things done

00:16:39: etc.,

00:16:40: but maybe to... ...to share something on purpose.

00:16:44: Which might be more provocative and unusual for especially the humanitarian arena.

00:16:52: I wouldn't name no risk nor fun.

00:16:55: This might sound a bit shocking and sector-rich deals with thousands of people in life threatening emergencies, disasters crisis.

00:17:05: And nothing of this is, of course fun.

00:17:07: But I believe we are at a point where two things really challenging and in this sense... Of course we talk about risk sharing these times when there's many power debates also shifting the power to local actors or countries in crisis and actors involved themselves.

00:17:30: But I think it's going well beyond all already an issue for decades that we on the one hand, you work in an arena which is a more challenging thing than maybe any other because you were in crisis and conflict.

00:17:44: You can only fail in some contexts.

00:17:48: at The same time We have great risk aversion not only by donors as they keep talking also by ourselves.

00:17:54: So if there was really a lack of what we call in German feel our cool tour And these fancy sayings of failing forward would really be something the sector could benefit from.

00:18:07: my view, because we are at a point in time where we need to do try and error.

00:18:12: To look into new ways for financing and new ways of operations, new organization approaches... And the second is to keep it short, that we never really learned I believe to celebrate success stories what we achieve.

00:18:28: To appreciate also as engaged colleagues or what has been achieved by this sector which just basically doing the most important thing in the world at saving lives and so this appreciating that and celebrating with our partners can be something of great help on these challenging times.

00:18:48: So I hope everybody gets this right, but taking risks having fun is something which could be a good motto for twenty-twenty seven already.

00:18:58: All right!

00:19:00: Thank you very much Raff and thanks to our listeners.

00:19:07: Tune in also next time to the chat room, a podcast on humanitarian action from The Center for Humanitarian Action.

00:19:14: And please join us at the Charconference, twenty-twenty six.

00:19:18: you will find the link to the schedule and tickets in the show notes.

00:19:22: For any question or suggestion Please feel free to email us at info at charberlin.org.